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C: I'll throw my hat into the ring on that a little bit, honestly I think that if they innovate the control scheme again that it'll be even better than 5's was, but I will say going back to MCC's forge these last couple of months for the weekly game night we host, it's hard to come back to Halo 5 sometimes haha.
A: Yeah I find it especially difficult myself as I mostly do Halo 5, it's very hard for me to occasionally go back to MCC or even Splitgate, as I built a Splitgate map, I'll have to go back to that at some point now that I mention it, but it's insanely similar to the old Halo Forge controls and it boggles my mind a little bit going back and forth.
It's so clear that they wanted to make an accessible forge like Halo's and they did it.
C: You know what, my request actually, is since we have custom control schemes in Infinite for basic gameplay, I want to be able to customize the control layout for Forge, that way I can have it classic like MCC if I want, or make it more complex like Halo 5's. Even if they have a new crafted control scheme currently, honestly it would be great to have the option still.
A: That would definitely be nice, but I'm on the train that Halo 5's aren't even that complicated, now something I do think is complicated is the menus and Navigating them, primarily to find pieces. I think Halo 5's is very intuitive on the control side though.
B: It's very interesting that you mentioned that the menus are a little messed up, honestly I agree with you, you have to think about how to best invest all the assets in forge, as that list of assets that you can use in forge keeps growing for each game, the list just gets so expansive.
C: A search function for console players would be nice haha.
B: Yea exactly, a search function is just one of the ways they could make it better and would be very great.
C: Halo 5's PC Forge had a search feature, which is weird because you could use the controller on that but they never brought it to Console, which is a little strange.
Sam, what would be some advice that you'd recommend to new forgers starting?
A: I would recommend picking your favorite map from any game and remake it. Get it as close as you feasibly can, because that's going to force you to learn the tool and the parts with it that'll help you succeed. That will also help you start picking up things about level design and what makes certain things work here but not there, what works and what doesn't, etc. That may not come off your first map, but the more and more of these you make you're going to start noticing some patterns, like how to form a lane structure, how to balance a map; how do I account for weapons, and spawns. I learned a lot of that all the way back in Halo 3, I and my brother would make variations of Vallhalla, we both started a base and basically had unlimited weapons and vehicles to go at each other, then figured out more basic things like ok how do I place a flag point, spawns, spawn zones; it all added up over time with just playing and messing around with the tool that allowed me to understand the systems behind everything.
Over time I was able to build this sort of literacy that showed me how to build an environment within your level, how you construct certain playspaces for certain events, how you balance a level, all these things that I started to learn once I did my own stuff. I like to attribute that to my time remaking maps and my inspirations, but that can come from anywhere.
B: Out of any map that you've seen from the community or from a developer, what would you say is one of your most favorite maps?
A: My favorite map in Halo overall, is actually Highlands from Halo Reach. I know that's not a popular one but for me, Highlands is the perfect size, it has the perfect team balance while not being completely symmetrical without being sterile like how you see some of these maps today where it's so balanced that it's not very fun, like it's still going with enough of that chaotic energy to it without being frustrating nonsense. It's the little quirks about a map that make them truly memorable I'd say, for me, Highlands on Halo Reach is the epitome of that.
C: Me and my friends actually challenged each other to remake 1 map that we chose at the beginning of Halo 5, I had Highlands, my buddy Kyle had Tempest, and Jumper had Gephyrophobia. Little to say that my version of Highlands was terrible and Kyle made a unique symmetrical reconstruction of Tempest. I think we had a similar philosophy, remaking will help us understand the tools better.
B: Sometimes it's nice to have some maps where you don't really worry about balance in the maps, you worry more about character. What sort of layout or power positions on the maps help identify that map, making it far more memorable. You're not worried too much about pickups, you just kinda let the map do its thing.
A: I actually kind of turned that into a bit of a goal, when I'm making a map typically I'm focused on making things balanced and not making anything too overpowered, but I'm forcing myself to try and put something overpowered or gives a map more character, then keeping it no matter the feedback to keep more character into the map. I'm doing that primarily because looking back most of my maps have become sterile and have lost character to balance, nothing (other than a setpiece) makes the map necessarily memorable which is something I've definitely lost with overbalance and time.
C: I can get that struggle. Speaking of your maps, what would be your favorite map that you've made?
A: I think what would be my favorite is the one I consider my most technically impressive map in Halo 5, Atrium. We played on it on one of the game nights, I'm so proud of that layout and how it turned out, while I'm not the happiest with some of the scaling I still love the layout I constructed. The map that I have kind of a soft spot for though is Rise, as it was one of my firsts, I've brought it with me all the way from Halo Reach. It was the first map I made in Halo 5 around 2017. It definitely isn't my best work, but I use it to familiarize myself with the tool and gauge where I've come from overall. I made it in Halo Reach, Halo 4, Halo 2 Anniversary (Sadly that file corrupted though), and Halo 5. I also did the Rise remake thing in Splitgate to learn the tool, and that's the map I made for Splitgate.
C: Speaking of Infinite again real quick (and then we'll loop back around to Splitgate) how're you incorporating or preparing for Equipment inclusion on your maps?
A: I'm coming from a sort of anarchist sort of midset with Equipment honestly, what I mean by that is that I want to really try to push what I can do with equipment, especially with the Grappleshot and Repulsor. I sort of want to treat them, at least in the first map, as game-breaking nonsensical equipment/pickups that breaks the maps in half so I can see what you can do with them when they are unshackled and set loose in the sandbox. When I take a very verticle map like Rise and put 2 Grappleshots on it, how will that affect it? I'd hope that'd completely destroy my map just so it can inform me going forward and to see what kind of map I can utilize those equipments the best. What kind of maps can I put each piece of equipment on and what will make them the most memorable on each map.
C: It'll be interesting to see how the community utilizes the equipment because of how dynamic it is, it allows you to kinda flow around the map and break things, all that type of stuff you aren't able to do in a conventional Halo design. I think as Infinite progresses that we'll probably get new equipment or weapons similar to Halo 5 that'll change the sandbox even more and allow us to truly experiment. Equipment variants could be cool too, like all the wacky and goofy campaign variants. I'm sure that's going to be a challenge and fun to mess around with.
A: It was really fun to say to myself "How in the world am I going to build rise with a Grapple shot on it? Will I be able to? Let's see what happens! I'm excited to see what type of chaos will be had with the forge creations, as all of the maps in matchmaking right now are clearly designed for the equipment like there's no high place on big team maps you can get with the Grappleshot or anything crazy you can do with them. The balancing would be kinda busted if you did but it'd still be cool to utilize higher geometry than is currently given.
C: Actually fragmentation allows you to go pretty high up. even if only for a limited time haha.
A: The one kinda breaking thing you can do is getting up to the exit doors of the Loot Caves, which can be frustrating since no one can do anything about you without a good grenade sometimes, or going through the loot cave.
C: Wrapping around back to the Splitgate stuff, this isn't going to be ForgeHub's segway into covering Splitgate content or anything, but this question is still a good one to ask; regarding Splitgate and other editors, how would you say your Forge skills have transferred between the other editors you've used?
A: I suppose that it's transferred over pretty well, I'd say my experience with Forge has given me an edge in Splitgate and other editors, it's given me the toolset to understand level design, which can transfer to other games and engines too, even with the different weapons and mechanics. Splitgate has more verticality than Halo as everyone has a jetpack and a portal gun. The biggest challenge honestly when it came to transferring the skill was asking myself the question, "How am I going to make this fun with Portals" which was definitely a headache. Taking a Halo map and making it work for a different game with different mechanics is one of the more challenging things to do in level design, especially with the differences in a product like Splitgate. I wanted to do a Halo map though because it forced me to reevaluate how the map is reconstructed as a whole, I didn't change much, but there are definitely a lot more walls, line of sight blockers, and larger death pits. Accounting for all the new factors really is challenging but fun!
C: Nice! Sounds like a lot of the Forge techniques transferred over pretty well then in that case, other than trying to figure out the Portal stuff haha.
A: The raw creativity that emerged with forge allowed for me to break into the sandbox of Splitgate pretty easily I'd say, after that initial challenging hump of the portals of course.
C: When it comes to, as you said big team is one of your favorite modes, what would you say is your favorite game for big team battle?
A: Halo 4, not even close.
C: Why would you say that?
A: For Halo 4, and a lot of people don't like Halo 4, which there are definitely a lot of reasons not to like it, but I've loved Halo 4's big team because of Loadouts and the requisition system, because one thing that's sort of frustrating, and this is present in Infinite too, where you have the standard Halo sandbox, which caters to going and finding things, and that works really well on a 4v4 map, but in a big team map, especially in a vehicle and power weapon saturated environment, suddenly that dinky little assault rifle doesn't cut it generally. This leads to what I find as the problem with generally a lot of Halo big team battles is ok, I just respawned, now to go find a weapon. This can be annoying because your teammate may have the weapon, or you have to find a vehicle; whereas in Halo 4 you always have a weapon you're comfortable with to combat what's thrown at you. This helps you with dealing with more of what's offered to you within the sandbox in my opinion, yes it mitigates the scavenging element of the sandbox, but honestly, in big team I don't think it's fun waiting for a weapon to respawn before you can go out and have fun. I think the ability to spawn with whatever you want definitely breaks the 4v4 setting but I think it's good for big team battle.
C: To level with you I think that it would definitely be nice if in Infinite (specifically for Custom Games) that we were able to re-utilize loadouts. Would you say that maybe it's the lack of weapons in previous maps rather than it being an issue with the scavenging portion of the sandbox?
A: I don't know if it's a saturation issue, take fragmentation for instance, in my opinion, it's oversaturated with weapons. You have 6 weapons at the base, weapons surrounding the base, weapons surrounding the middle, and the loot caves; honestly, I don't think it's the saturation, it's the issue of having to require the player to do something just to enjoy the game, pickups should be a bonus, not a sudo-requirement to have fun. It's definitely not a bad system, but it can be tedious in comparison to the versatility to Halo 4, oh I need to do X, I can build for X in my loadouts rather than requiring me to go to X place in a big team map.
C: Well, Bacon do you have any other questions for Sam?
B: Well I guess I only have really 1, just out of curiosity, have you ever played any of the Far Cry map editors? If so, what tools would you like to see from those editors make their way to Halo's Forge?
A: I have actually not touched the Far Cry editors, even though I know it's an incredibly advanced system for both PvE and PvP content, the only thing is that I've always come from a pragmatist or utility standpoint is Halo for me has always had the ability to get people together to play n these things, I knew from the get-go that I would not get that same experience. If I made something in Far Cry it seemed like it would be for me alone and that's it, essentially when Far Cry had it's editor I'd in a sense just be making it for myself rather than to see what others think which isn't as appealing to me when I like the community. None of my friends had Far Cry either so it wasn't like I could convince them to buy the game just to play one of my maps. Even though I haven't used it myself, I have seen the wonderful things that some people have been able to create with it. I know that Ducain really lamented the loss of the far Cry Editor in Far Cry 6, I've seen some of his stuff and others and I love the versatility of the editor, especially the freedom to create your own natural environments and render them, I'd say that's what I'd want the most to come from Far Cry to Infinite.
C: Honestly in Far Cry 5, it was so close to being something like the Halo editor, but sadly it just didn't get support, which kinda sucked, because all there was Team Death Match, and Free for All, that's it haha. When it comes to that, something I'd want to see from Far Cry and another maker game, Mario Maker, is the ability to add leaderboards to maps for minigames, or a way to tie maps together, so for example Linear Infection, you survive to the end of one map or die out, ok the next map will load up in the que and you can continue the story.
A: Absolutely, to kind of come off od that too, the biggest thing I'd actually want to come from a game like Mario Maker is actually the appeal to people who don't even make maps or levels in Mario Maker, at the end of the day, even though the editor is powerful and simple, there's still a game behind it, with progression with story modes and gauntlets for non-creators. Now of course we have base multiplayer but that won't really incorporate forge to the fullest, I think it would be cool if there was a playlist you could que into by yourself or with people, that's just those people, and it's just minigames that are fun, like a fusion frenzy type of thing I guess haha.
C: That'd be absolutely amazing haha, well gentlemen thank you so much for coming out for this episode of Creators Spotlight!
A: Thanks for having me!
B: It was awesome, thanks for letting me! this with you!
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Thank you, everyone, so much for sticking with us all the way through, like I said the next episode is going to be very long and special, hope all of you will enjoy that one when it comes out. Thank you again to Anvil Prime52 for coming out and talking with us for this episode and as always, remember let's forge a new Halo!
Your friendly neighborhood writer
-Crush